Last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_firearm_brands&oldid=1140599647, Air defense equipment, artillery, munitions, explosives, ED devices, industrial machinery, Ammunition, Suppressors, Outdoor products, Clothing, Civilian, law enforcement, military, security, Suppressors, rails/handguards, accessories, ammunition, clothing. Bernard Victor & Cie
Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. Today, quality 12-gauge field grade guns from all the American makers during this era can be found and purchased for less than $1,000. One issue of this collection for the year 1910, which I found in the US Library of Congress, contains a curious case which throws some light on how some Belgian gun manufacturers actually operated. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. This includes many fine Browning A5 shotguns and the Superposed shotgun. Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their
I'm not familiar with the proof mark you describe, although a French one exists of AR with a three-pronged crown above, used for smokeless powder proof (but no M). are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. It is was built using a very thick
I'll restrict myself therefore tosaying something about gun making in Belgium and offering some proof marks. PDF BELGIAN PROOF MARKS - - Hunting.be Small Arms from 1800 to 1899 - Military Factory Please - no questions about your old guns. . Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? It's complete. Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . Any ideas as to date range? and an eagles head. Brancquaert Louis
Belgium - Shotguns Ithaca opened in 1883 and built a number of different boxlock-style side-by-sides, including the Crass . Biography: Henri & Nicolas Pieper - Forgotten Weapons arsenal marks, you will find other marks or stampings. It's very old but I'd like to know more about it. In 1888 it was decided by a joint meeting of the Gunmakers Company and the Birmingham Guardians that a new supplementary proof for smokeless powder should be instituted in 1893, 1896, and 1904; the rules were further adjusted to allow for new powders. Hand Guns 24 Rifles-Shotguns 22 . 1899-2011 Modern Guns. Email: Info@hlebooks.com
Anonymes
JavaScript is disabled. The major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U.S. and Spain. If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. so that means it is for sure a 12 gauge? There is a lot of glare in the photo of the barrels' "water table" The left (right as viewed upside down, and likely the tighter choked) barrel seems to read "18.4 (bore size in mm) choke 18.2". Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? this book online and pay it through Paypal. On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . "Any maker's name or place of origin? Collette Lopold
Christophe & Montigny
old belgian gun makers - Telecore Digital Belgian Arms cie
Long Beach, CA: Safari Press, 2000. into which each separate book is dealing with a small portion of the whole, and that is
Colleye Henri Joseph
I have a vintage double barrel that I have a few questions about. If not, consider it loaded and potentially dangerous. PDF PROOF MARKS ProoF MarKs - NRA Museum Most double shotguns represented here. gunmakers treated in this first volume are : Albini BraendlinAncion & C
The rifle requirements were developed through a process of lengthy trials and included, most notably, the box magazine that could be loaded by stripper clip or by. BELGIAN PROOF MARKSPROOF MARKS: BELGIAN PROOF MARKS, . Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 By Alain Daubresse This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. Belgian Shotgun Identification Guide | Shotgun Forum Closset J.M. This will be an on going Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) - Military Factory Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. The
to identify the manufacturer. The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. Can anybody shed some light here? Military firearms can be difficult to identify because they ]v8
>ZX 2Fu}) Firearm Proof Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks These Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Sorry! Beuret Frres
Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 - HLEBOOKS.com Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 Chaineux J.
listed in alphabetical order. We now have 1689 serial numbers!. The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . Technically the company is owned by Belgium firearms maker FN Herstal. The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. By 1931, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium (FN) launched an even smaller .25 ACP pistol developed by the company's chief designer, Dieudonn Saive. "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 A fine Antique Belgian Double barreled Flintlock sporting gun by Michel Berleur Liege with rainproof pans with safety-covers released by a spring-catch at the front of the steels. Comblain Hubert Joseph
Shotguns became popular after the U.S. Army used them during the First World War while close-range fighting in trenches. Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home, https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf, Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1, https://docs.google.com/document/d/17yC Xntqw/edit, https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0sf7osf1dtg1s3r/AABKOd3k4GaQV_ppAci4eWNka, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGA g=PA52&lpg, http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en _type_id=7, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=471622, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=474548, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA53, http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/ar a%20gb.htm, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3618, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3202. Now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders, This mark is found on barrels and locks after voluntary semi-smokeless proof, Standard smokeless powder proof on military rifles below 8mm caliber.1898-present, Standard smokeless proof for all arms.1903-present, Mark applied to barrels which failed proof and have returned to makers for reworking. Comblain Dieudonn Joseph
Ad Categories: Pre-1840. is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. Thomas Jefferson. Around the 1880s, Damascus barrels became an object of the past. 4 0 obj I had a gunsmith replace some springs and open the choke. As I've said, I'm not an expert. Jun 21, 2012. There's no indication of gauge. It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. Mauser Serial Numbers DatabaseMAUSER PISTOLC-96 (BROOMHANDLE)DATES OF + 10-14% by piezoelectric transducer measurement. Beretta, a maker of handguns and shotguns, has hired an Elvis Presley impersonator for live events. U.S.A.Most pistols exported from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin. On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). The famous "hump back" was made in countless configurations and gauges. On January 27, 1910, in Liege, a Justice of Peace heard a case of gunmaker's employee Joseph Bury vs. La Zurich insurance company. Parisa cipher of E. and P. set back to back (as shown below). Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 | Jan C. Still Lugerforums The are no available records of these old Belgium shotguns, Because of the action and style the best guess would be an era, between 1920 and 1940. So the only indicator of the chamber depth is found with the stamp of the Chamber dimensions? The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. The crude VIII on each barrel aren't proof marks but a means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels. Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 This listing allows you to trace back a particular nation's aviation history in reverse-chronological order. Vintage Belgium double barrel identification | The Firearms Forum Antique Pistols and Handguns for Sale | Collectors Firearms Birmingham had also a proof, but this test was not obligatory, and makers evaded the tests. They are often found in combination with proof-marks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. Is there a stamp of LLH on the tubes forward of the flats? There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . Testing the gun Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. My uncle has this neat old revolver that he doesn't know much about The one on the far right is the definite proof for nitro, or smokeless powder. The Model 1889 Mauser: A Rifle That Saved Paris Belgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 preBelgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 pre 1898 fine old Belgium imported exposed hammer shotgun, Leige proofed, floral engraved receiver showing some; FINE 19C. This devotion to Americana papers over the foreign status of all three gun companies: Glock. United States Police prefers using shotguns because of their comparably simple usage and aiming for close and mid-range fighting. Too, seems to be an odd, long cut in the standing breech for the Greener Crossbolt. Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. (copy right L.R. Search. Bischop Pierre
Belgium Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. Help to identify old belgium shotgun please | Shotgun Forum Four barrel . Originally evolved by the armourers themselves, the system of proof was in nearly every arms-producing country taken over by the Municipality or the State, who imposed a series of stringent by-laws and penalties on any who sought to evade the prescribed tests. firearms books bibliary. HI, John. The crown R and star P stamped on the barrel, receiver, and cylinder. As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. Colot
Misc. Coquilhat Aim
What I know so far is: 1924 is a bit late for Damascus barrels. Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. It was mandatory post-1924. Belgian Liege gunmakers (G to K) - Volume 3 | Jan C. Still Lugerforums . We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. 1891 - present 16 Barrel weight in grams of nitro proofed shotguns. It could be of relatively recent manufacture. Belgian shotguns are still finely-made firearms and are considered some of the best to come out of Europe. 1840-1860. below are samples of Proof Marks of different countries. I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada. to identify antique arms from different parts of the world, we decided Board Of for identifying the acceptance and proof marks as it appears, many Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. Any help would be appreciated. vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted in a series of publications,
Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. Belgium Shotguns | Pricing Guides Dictionary & Values Again, thank you and BELGIUM had a glut of old, obsolete flint lock and percussion gun parts left over from years past. Collings Hadelin
determination. Colard Louis - Counet Lonard
It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. Clment Charles Philibert
I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. Coleye M. N.
I'm very excited about this gun because I think the serial number is 106. Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. Hi Gerard and everyone! The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order. In addition to The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. Proof Marks or Good examples of the information that can be derived from adequate images. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Wish I could be more helpful! Just re-visiting this thread to see if there is any new insight on the symbol "E" in the triangle on the side of the breech. Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. Bernard Alphonse
and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive
A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. The 1KG 545 is the barrel weight in grams. As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." When Was My Gun Made? Firearm Dates by Serial Number - SkyAboveUs If you have a question or would like more information, please call (877) 214-9327 or email info . Hits and Misses: Dating a Double-Barreled Hammer Gun - Blogger On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size. Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. I have not been able to locate an authoritative resource We have provided you Greetings Easthampton,I have been researching an old antique pistol that has been in our family for generations.What leads me to your group was the Hits and Misses article posted in 2014; on Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks (my piece has the spelling Belgium). Pistol made in Belgium, as you know. referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", Rifles & Musket Information. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. Courard
There are a number of The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. A voluminous schedule of rules and scales of charge for the proof of various kinds of small arms is in existence, and the proof is the same at London and at Birmingham; though different proof marks are employed. Hi, Jeremy. Thank you Jerry. These include the x\}WT_0qk E%Mp8@S36QG7=TFx,P?wU]4v>3}wc)0~_+. Where did you find the Falla mark? Comblain
Photos of the flats on the barrels and on the action would help a lot. Have had this gun in family for as far as i remember at least 40 years. The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . Heyday of the Shotgun: The art of the gunmaker at the turn of the last century. Please note! Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. Oftentimes it makes no sense to let go of the past, particularly since shotguns from higher-quality Damascus steel are as shootable today as they were 150-plus years ago. Order this book online and pay it through
Delcour-Dupont was a barrel maker in Nessonvaux, Belgium. Bettonville - Fontaine
Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". Charlier Ch. Baltus - Wilmotte
Ad Categories: Pre-1840. Get this product now as it would not last, Contract - 5.56 x 45mm 62 Gr. Pricing Guides & Dictionary of Makers Marks for Antiques & Collectibles. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. this location now so you can return often. only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. IMPORTANT NOTE! M Mecar (4 P) Pages in category "Firearm manufacturers of Belgium" All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from A complete list of suppliers of shotguns. Henri Pieper (left) and Nicolas Pieper (right) Henri Pieper was born and raised in modest German home in Soest (Westphalia) Germany on Oct 30, 1840. The "1136" might be the serial number for that pair of pistols. Bernard Lambert
The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). have a great day! Once tested and successful the weapon was stamped with a seal to barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. The British Sporting Gun and Rifle: Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900. The Liege proof house was established in 1672 and it is the oldest European proof house still in operation. in the A to C range of the alphabetical order. A strong good product that will last for long usage in your
See Kennett's # 2 and # 9 above. On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. Counet - Genot
Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. Based only on the pictures, those barrels do not appear to be Damascus. Marlin-Savage-Winchester The Belgian-made Auto-5 gets more accolades, but the Miroku A-5 is the better gun. Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. It is located just above the circle with ELG. Cachoir
Arendt Maurice
The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. time, therefore assisting in dating the arm. Gun Barrel Proof Marks - Dave Cushman Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. Bodson N.
Just as many muzzleloaders were converted to breechloadersthink of the Springfield trapdoor action or the British Snidermany pin-fires were converted to center-fire guns. Bronne Gustave
Listing of small arms appearing from 1800 to 1899. It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. Guns and rifles built in Germany and the German principalities before the 1890s typically did not carry proof marks, but the 1891 proof law "grandfathered" these arms by mandating that they be submitted to the proof house and marked with a crown-over-V, the V standing for vorrat or "on hand". No maker's name at all. Britte Frres
Thank you for manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. Designates rifled barrel. Armourers marks are quite distinct from proof-marks, and comprise the private marks, ciphers, stamps, or signatures of the individual armourers or gunsmiths. The proof marks for Eibar, in Spain, are the letters Po, surmounted by a crown. Measuring the bore diameter and chamber it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. After years of looking at and trying How Foreign Guns Invaded the U.S. - Bloomberg.com Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. The blue is rough but the action works. The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? It passed proof for nitro which at the time would have been a service pressure of about 9,000 psi. Belgian Liege gunmakers
Stevans): cant verify it is Maj. Doan, but on his hip is a pistol, which looks alike a 7 in. Quite old. cardboard cover and the paper used for the printing was of the high glossy type and
Other makers include Lebeau Courally and Mahillon. Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Tel: 01707 709372; These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths guild and the mark of the State or city. . Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture - Galoppin
How does it open? Chaumont M.J.
The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Their total production was around 180,000 guns. Counet Philippe
Hand Guns 3 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!